How to Go Viral on Social Media with Michelle Thames

Yong-Soo Chung [00:00:00]

Michelle Thames has figured out what you DON'T need to do, to be successful on social media.

Michelle Thames [00:00:05]

Definitely. You don't need 10,000 followers to be successful.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:00:10]

She has also figured out what you DO need to do, in order to be successful.

Michelle Thames [00:00:14]

You just need to build community and be someone who is likable, knowable, and trustable.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:00:20]

And she uses this understanding to help her clients succeed with their digital media strategies.

Michelle Thames [00:00:25]

If you are strategic with your 200 people, you could be a millionaire with 200 people.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:00:30]

She even describes it in detail in her viral content playbook...

Michelle Thames [00:00:34]

I know everybody loves the cat videos, but is your niche cats? Because if that video goes viral, then you're not going to get the people that you're seeking.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:00:48]

Yeah, Michelle Thames has a VIRAL. CONTENT. PLAYBOOK.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:00:53]

When you have a strategy for your virality, that's where it really helps you.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:00:59]

And I got her to spill the beans.

Ready to hear Michelle's deepest, darkest secrets on how to go viral on social media? Then, stay tuned.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:01:14]

The next generation of successful founders in this digital age of entrepreneurship will leverage their audience to launch, build, and scale their brands. First Class Founders explores this golden intersection of audience-building & company-building with proven strategies to grow both your audience, which is your distribution, and your brand, which is your product.

Because those who can master both will create a category of one.

Hi, my name is Yong-Soo Chung and I'm a serial entrepreneur who bootstrapped 3 successful businesses from $0 to $20 million over 8 years.

On this podcast, you'll learn timeless lessons from world-class content creators, startup founders, and CEOs. You'll also hear tactical tips & strategies from ME, Yong-Soo Chung!

Are you ready? Then, let’s begin!

My COPILOT on today's episode is Michelle Thames.

Michelle is a digital media consultant and strategist who has worked with large brands like Toyota, Subway, and Lenovo on their social media campaigns.

Michelle Thames [00:02:20]

Hi, I'm Michelle Thames and I'm a marketing and monetization strategist helping women entrepreneurs get to the bag, meaning create multiple income streams and create an online business that they absolutely love.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:02:32]

I asked Michelle to join me on this episode because I was impressed by her knowledge of the social media landscape. I mean, she even has a playbook on how to go viral.

Michelle Thames [00:02:41]

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:02:44]

On this episode, we begin with Michelle onboarding me as her client…

Michelle Thames [00:02:48]

So the first thing we have to start off with is what are your goals?

Yong-Soo Chung [00:02:52]

We discussed the importance of choosing the right platform for your business...

Michelle Thames [00:02:56]

Because not everyone can be everywhere and it doesn't make sense for every brand to be on every platform.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:03:02]

Then we discussed why it was necessary -especially for founders- to build an audience.

Michelle Thames [00:03:07]

I know there are a lot of founders, a lot of businesses that just wanna jump into marketing, but you can't do that if you have nobody to sell to.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:03:15]

Michelle had some amazing insights on why founders need to build their own brand.

Michelle Thames [00:03:20]

Because in 2023 and beyond, no one wants to buy brands just based off, okay, I see it on the shelf.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:03:26]

...and most importantly, why having millions of followers is not necessarily a sign of success.

Michelle Thames [00:03:32]

Because again, followers don't equal dollars. I have 36,000 followers on Instagram, but that does not mean that every 36,000 one of those people bought from me.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:03:40]

There are TONS of valuable lessons that I was able to extract from my short conversation with Michelle Thames and I cannot wait to get started!

Jet-setters, buckle your seatbelts, put your phones on airplane mode, and get ready for take-off!

Michelle Thames [00:03:57]

Hey. This is Michelle Thanes, and let's get down to business.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:04:03]

All right, before we jump in, just a quick reminder that you can grab the 3-min hyper-visual summary of this episode on how to create viral content that deeply resonates with Michelle Thames absolutely free at firstclassfounders.com/hypervisuals. Big thanks to Sachin over at HyperPods for his incredible work.

So, who is Michelle Thames?

Michelle Thames [00:04:28]

Yeah, so who am I? I am Michelle Thames. I'm a marketing and monetization strategist. And I'm from Chicago. It is my mission to help women entrepreneurs build online businesses that they love. So, that's really why I'm very passionate about turning your passions into profits, which is what I've done.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:04:46]

Michelle is actually being quite humble here. She has worked with some really big names such as Toyota, Subway, and Lenovo on their social media campaigns...

Michelle Thames [00:04:56]

 ...so I wear many hats. Influencer, podcast, I have a website, I have a digital marketing agency. So my influencer hat, working with those types of brands, really showcasing what I could do but also being authentic. I think when you show up authentic online, that's how you attract the right type of client.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:05:13]

...and this, despite the fact that she never trained professionally or studied for a marketing degree!

Michelle Thames [00:05:18]

I have a health administration degree. And by putting myself out there on social media, I gained the attention of someone who was a startup founder and she was looking for someone to help her with their digital marketing. And I went in for the interview and got the job.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:05:35]

So I decided to give her a job right then and there.

“Imagine if I came to you as a new client and say, hey, Michelle. You know, I am I have a business, but I am lacking in my social media presence. And so as a new client, walk me through kind of your thought process of, like, you know, onboarding me and just generally, like, the strategy that you have.”

And she launched right into it.

Michelle Thames [00:06:01]

Ooh, I love this. So the first thing we have to start off with is what are your goals? What are your goals for your business? Do you want more brand awareness? Are you trying to get more sales? And also it really depends on what type of business you have, service-based versus product-based.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:06:14]

Hold on, I need to double-click on that product-based businesses vs service-based businesses - what does that mean and how does it change the entire approach?

Michelle Thames [00:06:22]

I believe all marketing is the same across the board for all businesses, right? Where it really comes into play is your specific niche and your specific target audience. Definitely both ways of doing business, product-based, service-based are successful, but I think it really boils down to what platforms you're using. Obviously with e-commerce, businesses, Klaviyo and Shopify are like the top websites and email platforms that you should be involved in. But if you are a creator or influencer, you might use something like ConvertKit and have something like I have, which is the StanStore link.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:06:56]

Hmm, I have three businesses - UrbanEDC, Spotted by Humphrey, and GrowthJet. But, for the sake of this episode, let's say I'm trying to build a business as an entrepreneurial coaching consultant...

Michelle Thames [00:07:07]

And what are your goals? Are you trying to get more website clicks? Are you trying to build a brand ambassador program? Are you trying to work with UGC content creators?

Yong-Soo Chung [00:07:15]

Okay, so step 1 is: Outline your goals for your business.

This seems pretty obvious but as you all know by now, I’m a huge fan of having clarity before you embark on any journey.

Next, let's say, I'm trying to grow my business by attracting more customers...

Michelle Thames [00:07:32]

You have to build an audience. I know there are a lot of founders, a lot of businesses that just wanna jump into marketing, but you can't do that if you have nobody to sell to.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:07:41]

Alright. Step 2 is: Build an audience.

Noted. But, the question here is HOW do I go about building an audience? And WHERE?

Michelle Thames [00:07:51]

So if you have a personal brand and you're a coaching consultant, so let's start with there. If you're coming to me, totally definitely you should be on Instagram. Everybody's on Instagram. I don't care if you don't have a large following, you just should still have a presence on Instagram. And then there's deciding, do you need a website or do you just need a LinkedIn bio? What products and services are you gonna sell and how are you gonna do that?

Yong-Soo Chung [00:08:12]

Okay, step 3 is: Choose a platform. Instagram is a great choice, according to Michelle.

And maybe, LinkedIn. And figure out my 'product'.

Right, so now I have a platform but I still need SOME people following me - how and where do I get them?

Michelle Thames [00:08:29]

There's two ways that you can do this. The first way is you can start obviously with paid ads to reach a new set of people who know nothing about you. But you could also start with organic marketing, which is how I started my whole entire personal brand and business. I did not put money behind anything that I was doing. It's all organic. And when you start that way, you build an audience in a community that then likes, knows, and trusts you.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:08:56]

Hmm, so step 4 is: Run paid ads or use organic marketing to grow your audience.

Did you catch that? Michelle suggests utilizing two of the five growth levers that I talk a lot about a lot on this podcast. Paid ads and organic content. The other 3… just in case you’re curious, are partnerships, virality, and direct sales.

Anyways, back to Michelle.

Michelle mentions that you need to build an audience that "likes, knows, and trusts" you. This sounds like a very good rubric to evaluate the quality of my audience!

Michelle Thames [00:09:28]

I've developed a community that's been following me since the last 14 years, and now they can see what I've done, and now they trust me as an authority in this space because they've seen everything I can do. I've shared it with them, and they've been on the journey.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:09:41]

Hang on a minute, that sounds kinda familiar… They LIKE what Michelle's is doing. She keeps them in the KNOW. And they TRUST her judgment.

That sounds a lot like "building in public" to me!

The beauty of building in public is that you don't need a huge following to implement it and Michelle agrees...

Michelle Thames [00:09:59]

You don't need 10,000 followers. You can start with what you have. Actually smaller numbers are better because you want quality versus quantity.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:10:08]

Okay, noted. A smaller audience but a quality audience. (VO instructions: Read this as if you were taking notes.)

And I can use Michelle's "like-know-trust" rubric to evaluate the quality of my audience!

Michelle Thames [00:10:18]

But I believe that all marketing to begin with is the same foundation, right? You gotta build an audience. You have to post actually, and not just post and pray or think that the people will come to you, but... honestly, I believe that the foundation itself is the same.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:10:08]

Okay, to quickly summarize, the 4-step process that Michelle outlines to all the clients she onboards for her business is:

Step 1: Outline your goals for your business.
Step 2: Build an audience.
Step 3: Choose a platform. Instagram is a great choice.
Step 4: Run paid ads or use organic marketing to grow your audience.

But, I really want to go a couple of steps back, and double-click on Michelle's choice of Instagram as a platform for building an audience. I mean, anybody who follows this podcast knows that I personally prefer twitter --or X-- over other platforms. At least, as of this moment.

But, earlier, Michelle seemed quite insistent about ALL founders having an instagram profile...

Michelle Thames [00:11:23]

If you're coming to me, totally definitely you should be on Instagram. Everybody's on Instagram. I don't care if you don't have a large following, you just should still have a presence on Instagram.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:11:33]

...that I briefly wondered if she would be able to convert me from X to Instagram. I asked her why she prefers Instagram so much.

And her answer, quite frankly, surprised me a little.

Michelle Thames [00:11:43]

I know it's very stressful and there's a lot of platforms, but like I said before...

Yong-Soo Chung [00:11:48]

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Okay, let's get back to our episode with marketing and monetization expert,  Michelle Thames.

Before the short detour, I was about to tell you why Michelle prefers Instagram over other platforms...

And, it turns out that she RECOMMENDS Instagram as a platform to every client but does not INSIST that everyone has a profile.

Michelle Thames [00:13:32]

I always tell people, start with one platform. Maybe it's Instagram and you have an email list But I don't want you to just be on one platform because we don't own any of these and it can go down.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:13:42]

But you still need to start somewhere, so (pause) Instagram. But, there is a caveat to it, she warns.

Michelle Thames [00:13:49]

In today's digital world, it's just not enough to be on Instagram. Instagram can go down tomorrow and then what do you have?

Yong-Soo Chung [00:13:56]

Yeah, this also tracks with what several previous guests on this podcast have said previously - that you shouldn't build your following on, quote-unquote, "rented land".

And the solution to that is to either figure out a way to own your content...

Michelle Thames [00:14:08]

What I would say is you probably should start a podcast because that's yours and you can do whatever you want on your podcast Sell your products and services on your podcast too.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:14:16]

...or build sufficient redundancy in your distribution. That is, build your following on multiple platforms.

But, of course, THAT comes with the added responsibility of creating and posting content for multiple platforms!

Michelle Thames [00:14:31]

Well, here's the good thing. In today's world, short form video content is king. And so a lot of platforms have short form video content, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. So do not beat yourself up and go crazy over creating all this content. What you can do is take that same exact video. What you should do is it shouldn't have any writing on it. So film the video in raw format on your phone. Maybe you have to break it up into different pieces, cool. But now you have just a video that can go on every platform. So you have that one video, now you post it to Instagram, now you post it to TikTok, now you post it to YouTube Shorts. That way you're not stressing out. You can plan one piece of content to be on multiple platforms.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:15:17]

I'm sure, at this point, you are probably thinking, "But that sounds like a LOT of additional work, Michelle!"

Michelle Thames [00:15:22]

I know it's very stressful and there's a lot of platforms, but like I said before, you don't have to be everywhere. So really think about the best places that your actual client and customer, your potential clients are, and then I would focus on them.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:15:36]

"Think about where your clients and customers usually hang out and focus on them." Okay, that definitely helps. Because, as a small business owner, a large part of my attention is actually focused on growing my business, so it might not always be possible to post enough content to build my personal brand.

Michelle Thames [00:15:53]

But my honest opinion is just like us small business owners, we have to roll our sleeves up. Unless you have a team that can help you through this, which you will eventually have. So don't think that you have to do it all by yourself. We will grow and get bigger and be able to have a team. But in the beginning, it's rolling our sleeves up and saying, okay, I'm gonna use this one piece of content and post it on all these platforms. And that's how I'm going to reach the brand awareness I'm seeking versus it's feeling so stressful because I have to post everywhere.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:16:20]

Those are very inspiring words, for sure!

But, here's a question...

Suppose you follow this advice and diversify your content to multiple platforms. But then, you find out that one particular platform is responding much better to your content than all the others. Should you still continue to deploy content to multiple platforms? Or should you focus all your efforts on that ONE platform?

Michelle Thames [00:16:43]

I definitely think if one platform is really, really doing it for you, you should focus in on that. For me, it's my podcast. I record at least 10 podcast episodes a month. I have a plan, but I am on every other platform. I think I will say Instagram, of course, but again, I just don't believe in focusing on one platform. I think that we can not be so stressed out and maybe focus on two, but again, I think if you are seeing that, like you said that 'tick' or increasing your analytics or people are really starting to notice you on that one platform. I would go harder on that one platform, but don't forget about all the other places that you are too because it matters.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:17:19]

Yeah, going back to what we said a little while earlier about 'building on rented land' building multiple distribution channels also helps with redundancy, so this makes a lot of sense.

Okay, continuing further in our audience-building journey, the next question you are likely to encounter is going to be that of SIZE vs TRUST. That is, should you focus on the SIZE of the audience, or should you focus on building their TRUST?

Michelle Thames [00:17:45]

Definitely. You don't need 10,000 followers to be successful. I'm sure we all heard of the story where there was some influencer who had millions of followers and couldn't even sell T-shirts.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:17:55]

Yeah, we've mentioned her a couple of times before on this podcast. Her name was Arii, if I remember correctly...

Michelle Thames [00:18:01]

So she probably didn't have the community. She probably didn't have that trust, right? So when you build that trust, it's more important than any number of followers. Because again, followers don't equal dollars.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:18:11]

What a wonderful way to put it! "Followers don't equal dollars!" Yeah, I think I'm gonna make a poster of it and hang it somewhere where I can look at it everyday!

Michelle Thames [00:18:20]

I have 36,000 followers on Instagram, but that does not mean that every 36,000, one of those people bought from me. It's like crazy to even think that.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:18:28]

Agreed. Having a HUGE following is definitely cool but I'd much rather have a loyal following that is small than a HUGE following that is fickle and unreliable.

At the same time, the size of an audience is a very *relative* measure and Michelle put it in perspective for me, beautifully.

Michelle Thames [00:18:45]

Take a step back and really say, wow, if 200 people were in my room today, would I be feeling overwhelmed? Because 200 people is a lot of people. And if you are strategic with your 200 people, you could be a millionaire with 200 people. So you don't need the volume that you think you need. You just need to build community and be someone who is likable, knowable, and trustable.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:19:07]

I mean, one way to look at it is that six to eight hundred people are in the room with me every week, hanging on to my every word for thirty whole minutes! I don't know if that is better than what Arii had but I can attest to the fact that it makes me very happy!

And, since you are one of those six to eight hundred people I just referred to, my sincere thanks to you for being with me for this episode!

But wait, the episode's not over yet! I still haven't shared with you the best part of my conversation with Michelle - her VIRAL. CONTENT. PLAYBOOK!

Yeah, you heard me right! Michelle has a viral content playbook and I got her to not only reveal it but also explain all the important bits!

Michelle Thames [00:19:46]

I know everybody loves the cat videos, but is your niche cats? Because if that video goes viral, then you're not going to get the people that you're seeking.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:19:59]

And I'll tell all about it in great detail but first, lemme take this opportunity to tell you about a platform that all digital entrepreneurs need to know about, especially right now during Black Friday.

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Alright, now let's get back to my interview with marketing and monetization expert Michelle Thames.

Before the break, I told you about Michelle's viral content playbook and I said that I would reveal everything about it.

Well, here is what we discussed.

Simply put, Michelle's viral content playbook is a compilation of all the elements that are necessary for your carefully-crafted content to go viral.

Michelle Thames [00:22:22]

When you have a strategy for your virality, that's where it really helps you.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:22:28]

Yup, exactly.

Not all the content that goes viral on the internet has a purpose. And content that goes viral but does not have a purpose is of no help to any one, and particularly, of no help to its creator.

To illustrate her point, Michelle gave the example of the internet's favorite kind of viral content - cat videos.

Michelle Thames [00:22:47]

And I know everybody loves the cat videos, but is your niche cats? Because if that video goes viral, then you're not going to get the people that you're seeking. But if you have a real structured video that has a hook, that has great copy, that's visually pleasing, that's shareable, because if it's not shareable, that's where the virality goes away, right? If the content does not prompt somebody to share it, then it can't be viral.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:23:14]

"If the content does not prompt somebody to share it, then it can't be viral."

Virality is simply the result of people continuing to share the content that has been shared with them by someone else. In previous episodes, I have spoken about the possibility of 'constructed virality' and given a few examples of how to achieve it.

Michelle went one step further and compiled her observations about viral content into a set of questions which she calls her viral content playbook.

Michelle Thames [00:23:39]

The playbook that I, again, that I go by is, is it able to be shared? Does it have a really great hook? Is the content coherent? Can people understand what you're talking about? And is it short to the point and quick?

Yong-Soo Chung [00:23:53]

There's a lot to unpack here, so let's take each question one-by-one...

First question: Is it able to be shared? This one is self-explanatory because content that cannot be shared, cannot go viral. Since social platforms are designed to make content-sharing easy, Michelle's insistence that founders build their presence on the platform where their audience hangs out suddenly makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?!

Second question: Is the content coherent? For people to want to share content it should be immediately understandable. So, coherence is actually an important feature to have if you want your content to go viral. In other words, use simple vocabulary and easy-to-understand concepts so that it’s approachable for a wider audience. You don't see mathematical research papers going viral on any popular social platforms, do you?

Third question: Is it short and to the point? Michelle explained this point herself, actually.

Michelle Thames [00:24:47]

Because here on social media and all these platforms, no one is gonna sit through a 10 minute video of you talking, right? It has to be straight to the point.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:24:54]

Finally, according to Michelle there was ONE other aspect that determined the virality-quotient of your content.

Michelle Thames [00:25:00]

It has to be relatable. It has to touch on their emotions. If it doesn't touch on anything about their emotions, they're probably not gonna share it.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:25:07]

In my opinion, this is probably the most important element that determines virality-quotient of your content. Because, even if you design your content to be short, coherent, and easily-shareable but fail to make it relatable, there is very LITTLE possibility that your content will go viral.

Additionally, there is a FIFTH element - one that ultimately decides whether or not this virality will be of any use to your business or your brand.

Association. As in, can people associate the content with your product organically?

Michelle provided a fantastic example of how to look for such content in your daily life without having to tear your hair out...

Michelle Thames [00:25:46]

So what else can you share that's within your niche that can connect with the emotions of your potential client and customer and say, oh, I need to share this. Maybe it's something so inspirational about your story or something so inspirational about one of your clients. That way the content will do better because now when it's shared, it's gonna come back to you and people are gonna say, oh my gosh, that was Michelle's client. Wow, I want those same results.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:26:10]

Did you catch that? Here, let me play that again for you...

Michelle Thames [00:26:13]

So what else can you share that's within your niche that can connect with the emotions of your potential client and customer.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:26:20]

That's right. Emotions.

It sounds manipulative but emotions are essentially at the heart of this entire game of virality. Viral content almost always triggers an emotional response....

Michelle Thames [00:26:33]

Marketing is all about emotions. Let's be honest, it's all about pulling on the heart strings of someone to get them to buy whatever it is that you're selling, right?

Yong-Soo Chung [00:26:41]

Also, while talking with Michelle, I stumbled upon an interesting little realization: One of the critical appeals of sharing content and helping it go viral is being among the 'first few' who 'discover' it - like an early explorer who stumbles upon uncharted territory. This achievement then becomes a social currency that people often flaunt among their peers. I'll talk more about this aspect of virality in a future episode.

Anyway, coming back to the viral content playbook, the FIVE elements that determine the overall virality-quotient of your content:

1. Share-ability
2. Coherence
3. Brevity
4. Relatability, and
5. Association

Any time you craft content that has all FIVE of these qualities, you can be assured that the possibility of it going viral goes through the roof! And, furthermore, if you nail the association element properly, that virality will directly translate to your business!

Overall, my conversation with Michelle gave me some great ideas about how to go about building my own personal brand. Plus, I could see how her viral content playbook could be a great asset for building my audience organically.

Except, one thing kept bothering me.

While onboarding me as a client, Michelle's focus was primarily on my business. Specifically, Michelle was evaluating whether my business was service-focused or product-focused. But, our conversation didn't focus on what I could or should do with content on my PERSONAL account.

Should I post business-related stuff on my personal account? Should I post personal stuff on my business account? Should the two stay completely separate? Or should they be intertwined to some degree? To WHAT degree?

So I asked her in simple straight terms: what should I --as a founder of a business brand-- post about my business, on MY personal account?

All I'm gonna say is that her response to all these questions was quite gratifying. Here's a sneak preview of what she had to say about the matter:

Michelle Thames [00:28:44]

We're not saying to share your personal life like. Everything you went to the bathroom, you walked the dog, you did this, unless that's what you want to share. You never know what will relate with people.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:28:54]

Yeah, she really said that!

But, if you want to know the whole context of her statement, you will need to sign up to the First Class Founders membership. Because I crafted a special segment explaining exactly this bit - and much more, actually. Like, clear guidelines on what content to share about your business on your personal page as a founder. And when to share them.

So, yeah, become a premium member of First Class Founders. Go to firstclassfounders.com/join - look for the link in the show notes.

Michelle Thames [00:29:27]

in today's world that we live in People want to know who the founder of the business brand is.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:29:33]

Does that mean founders should post business-related content on their personal pages? Or that founders should post personal stuff on their business pages?

Michelle Thames [00:29:41]

So when it comes to building a personal brand versus your business brand, they can be intertwined. <So I used to work for a company called MyOle Organics, and it's a beauty and lifestyle haircare brand. One thing that the founder did, which was very, very important, is she built her personal brand, which in turn helped the brand elevate even more because now people connected her with the brand. They really, really liked her. With that like-know-and-trust factor, which in turn blew the brand up because now it has a face, now it has something that's relatable.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:30:13]

Okay, as a founder, I can see that it makes good business sense to promote my businesses on my personal account. I'm just worried that I might end up... oversharing, if you know what I mean?

Michelle Thames [00:30:22]

We're not saying to share your personal life like. Everything you went to the bathroom, you walked the dog, you did this, unless that's what you want to share. But you should share things. Maybe you smell a new fragrance that you're putting in your product or you went to a trade show and you're trying to get new materials, things like that, like that a CEO would be doing that people would be interested in. They might say, oh, well, she goes on vacation. So do I. That's really relatable. You never know what will relate with people.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:30:51]

And what about founders who are, uh, shy, or uncomfortable with the spotlight? Surely, you can't force someone to be something they are not, right?

Michelle Thames [00:31:01]

If you do have a brand that is faceless and you don't wanna be the face of the brand, totally fine, but there needs to be some type of advocate for the brand that can speak for the brand, that can be that human factor. Because in 2023 and beyond, no one wants to buy brands just based off, okay, I see it on the shelf. They actually go deeper and read about what is the, the founder, what do they believe in? What is the brand values? What does the brand actually believe in? How is the brand showing up on social media?

Yong-Soo Chung [00:31:32]

Okay, so the whole idea is:

(a) to have a HUMAN face or persona that people can associate with the brand.
AND
(b) to establish a clear association between this face or persona and the brand by having them post regularly about the brand on their personal accounts.

Michelle Thames [00:31:49]

I think that the business page should also showcase the team and the behind the scenes of that because that is really how people connect with different brands is through that human interaction. And if you're not showing that on the business page, it will be a little bit hard, right, for people to really connect with the brand.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:32:06]

Fair enough, that makes a lot of sense too.

So, to summarize, here's what Michelle recommends in this matter:

1. Have the business page post about the humans of the brand.
AND
2. Have the humans of the brand post about the business - but make sure to do so in a manner that is relatable.

Yup. That's definitely a good rule-of-thumb to follow!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:32:29]

Before we wrap up the episode, I asked Michelle what advice she would give young entrepreneurs and founders - specifically, what advice she would give to young Michelle who was just starting out on her journey...

Her first piece of advice was...

Michelle Thames [00:32:43]

...don't care what other people think. It sounds simple, but when you're an entrepreneur, there are gonna be a lot of people who say, oh, you shouldn't be doing that. Oh, you're always on your phone. Oh, you're doing, I don't care what you think. Yes, I am always on my phone. I am a marketing person. My job is social media. So it's gonna kind of be hard for me to not be on my phone every day, right?

Yong-Soo Chung [00:33:01]

Next, she reminded herself to not give up.

Michelle Thames [00:33:03]

...don't give up. A lot of people give up when it gets too hard, but the one thing about being an entrepreneur is that it is hard and it's going to be hard. It's gonna be like this, up and down, up and down, up and down, there's never gonna be like a straight line.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:33:21]

Her third bit of advice stemmed from a recent incident with a six-figure client who refused to pay them and cut ties, despite signing contracts and formalizing their business relationship...

Michelle Thames [00:33:33]

I was really excited, but I did see some red flags. And so always, always go with your gut. And if you feel like there's a red flag, you should say, oh, maybe I shouldn't work with that person. So those are just some of the things like that I've developed over these last four years, but nothing is a loss. It's just a lesson.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:33:52]

Don't care what other people think.
Don't give up.
And, nothing is a loss. Everything is a lesson.

Three wonderful pieces of advice - not just for young Michelle but also for any entrepreneur starting their journey into the world of entrepreneurship.

You can reach Michelle via her -and this shouldn't be a surprise to you at all- Instagram profile...

Michelle Thames [00:34:12]

I'm there all the time @michellelthames. And if you're on Facebook, you can look at me on Facebook and follow my Facebook profile, Michelle Thames. And yes, I do have a book coming out. Oh, I don't have a name yet to the book, but I am deep in writing this book, and I hope that this book will help women entrepreneurs. That's my goal. And so just stay on the lookout on my, especially, you know, my Instagram page. You definitely know when the book will be released.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:34:41]

And, if you enjoyed this episode with Michelle, you will definitely enjoy listening to episode 55 where I broke down the 5 growth levers I used to grow my newsletter from ZERO to 10 thousand subscribers in just eight months.

In the episode, I outlined a few ways in which virality can be CONSTRUCTED.

Yes, you heard me right, VIRALITY can be CONSTRUCTED.

EPISODE 55
    "If you think about it carefully, you will realize that some amount of virality can be catalyzed through gamification. Let me give you an example. Suppose you have exactly five thousand subscribers. Suppose, every week, 100 of them share your newsletter, which adds 10 new subscribers each week. These 100 subscribers are doing it for free. But, can you tell me what would happen if you were to offer them a dollar --or something worth a dollar-- for every new subscriber they brought in? Would they still bring in 10 new subscribers? Or would that number see a significant jump?"

Look for the episode in your podcast player - it is episode number 55. I'll also leave a link to it in the show notes.

And that's a wrap for today's episode, I'll see you next time on First Class Founders!