What the Best Creators Have in Common: Attracting Audiences, Making Your Own Luck, and Building a Strong Network

Yong-Soo Chung [00:00:04]

The topic I have chosen for today’s episode isn't new or unique. A quick search on Google or YouTube for the keywords "traits of successful founders" will throw up - pun intended - tons of articles, videos, book suggestions, and even *podcasts* for you to browse through.

I have devoured several of those books, articles, podcasts, and videos myself during the course of my eight year journey as an entrepreneur. And as you probably already know, in those eight years, I bootstrapped my business to twenty million dollars.

And, all along the way, I took notes on - well - pretty much everything.

And, over the course of the next 30 minutes or so, I plan to share ALL of these notes with YOU. Think of this as a crash course in successful entrepreneurship. So, what do YOU think? What traits do all successful entrepreneurs all have in common?

Yong-Soo Chung [00:00:56]

Hi, my name is Yong-Soo Chung and I am a first-generation Korean-American entrepreneur living the American dream. I started Urban EDC to cater to enthusiasts of everyday carry gear. I also own two other successful ventures: GrowthJet, a climate-neutral certified third-party logistics company for emerging e-commerce brands, and SpottedByHumphrey, an online boutique curating dog goods for good dogs. Through these three ventures, my business has generated over $20 million dollars in 8 years and I'm here to tell you how YOU can do the same!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:01:30]

On today's episode of First Class Founders, I will be sharing all my insights and learnings I have accumulated over the past several years of running 3 successful businesses and this podcast - which is about seven weeks away from completing a year, by the way!

Some of these traits you’ve heard about, some of these you haven't. Some you have within you, and others you will have to develop. I am not saying this is an exclusive list.

All I am saying is that I have found correlations between these traits and the success of founders and creators. And I'm simply sharing them with you.

Over the course of this episode, I will outline seven key lessons that I believe every entrepreneur WILL learn over the course of their entrepreneurial journey. I am hopeful that by sharing these lessons here, I will shorten the time required for new founders, entrepreneurs, and creators, to get up to speed.

These lessons are divided across a range of topics and will help you reach a lot of key milestones, from developing the right mindset to building the right audience, to designing the right product, to finally achieving consistent growth at scale.

Jet-setters, get ready for take-off!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:02:47]

What do the most successful entrepreneurs, creators, and founders have in common?

Go on, think about it.

Yes, you are absolutely right. They are daring, smart, tenacious, persevering, foresighted, self-aware, resilient, charismatic, decisive, and - the most important trait in my opinion - lucky.

That's a lot of qualities, sure, but you will agree with me that every single one of these traits can be developed.

You can become daring, smart, decisive, and charismatic. You can build tenacity and resilience. You can learn to persevere. You can develop self-awareness and foresight over a period of time. And, as I already outlined in Episode 10, you can ALSO make your own luck.

Why, then, isn't everyone successful?

I have pondered this question for a LONG time. And here's what I have realized.

I believe that successful people have the same traits as ordinary people. But, I discovered that they leverage these traits very differently from ordinary people.

Consider, for example, the most commonly used adjective for most successful founders - visionary.

Steve Jobs? Visionary. Jeff Bezos? Visionary. Elon Musk? Visionary!

When you think about it, every single founder who was hailed as a visionary was actually a person who formulated a plan and stuck to it. And we have seen examples of this in several previous episodes of the podcast as well.

In fact, that's the first LESSON I want to underline for this episode:

LESSON NUMBER ONE: Have a clear vision for where you want to be in the long term.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:04:22]

And we have had several guests on this podcast who have reiterated this exact lesson at different points in past episodes.

For instance, in episode 36, Clint Murphy outlined how he reverse-engineered his long-term vision to develop his current trajectory.

EPISODE 36 - Clint Murphy (04:49)
    "I was energized and I created a roadmap of what Mission 2028 would look like. And the idea for everything was to say, well, where do I want to be on this? Like, if I'm going to be a public speaker, how good do I want to be? Uh, how good of a coach do I want to be? If I want to be the best coach in Canada, what are the things I need to do to be that?"

Yong-Soo Chung [00:04:59]

And in episode 32, Sam Browne had this valuable advice for founders who were just starting out...

EPISODE 32 - Sam Browne (28:06)
    "Spend a lot of time, however you do it, journaling or thinking about or whatever, about what you would like your work life to be. And so what I mean is, sometimes I see people identify an opportunity to make a dollar and they'll dive into that and a year goes by or two years, and they realize they've accidentally committed themselves to something that they don't really care about. "

Yong-Soo Chung [00:05:31]

And, in episode 37, Khe shared with us the importance of NOT living - what he called - a "deferred life."

EPISODE 37 - Khe Hy (05:09)
    "And I would look at people who were 10, 15 years older than me, and they had two houses and kids in private schools and multiple X5s. And I kind of said to myself, I don't really want that. There's got to be something different. And so a few years, there's a joke on Wall Street, when's the best time to leave your Wall Street job? After next year's bonus? And I had that experience a few times, and I just said, you know what, I'm living groundhog today, I'm living for tomorrow. I'm not getting any younger. Um, it's time for me to take a risk, try to figure out really, what is it that makes me come alive. We get one life, and it's too precious to go through the motions in a job that is kind of met."

The next important lesson, I want to share with you is:

LESSON NUMBER TWO: Embrace the art of deliberate practice and strive to improve constantly.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:06:41]

You have heard the idiom, "Practice makes perfect." Well, I'm here to tell you that THAT is only half-true. Simple practice does help you get better. But DELIBERATE practice is where the true results reveal themselves.

Deliberate practice, in case you weren't aware, is basically practice but with a clear and constant focus on improvement. Sometimes, this requires you to get advice from a mentor or a coach who can help point out specific areas for you to work on.

This kind of deliberate, planned practice can actually lead to significant improvements over a period of time. The author James Clear, in his bestselling book "Atomic Habits", explains how a 1% improvement on a day-to-day basis yields a 3700% improvement by the end of the year! That is, if you improve just ONE percent everyday, you will be 37 TIMES better a year from now!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:07:33]

And this journey of improvement starts with a simple realization, which Clint Murphy summed up aptly in episode 36.

EPISODE 36 - Clint Murphy (10:28)
    "I'm willing to suck at things long enough to be good at them. And I'm willing to be good long enough to be great."

Once you realize you AREN'T good at something, it paves the way for you to start working on getting better at it. And the only way to get better at it is to do it. Again and again. Constantly. Consistently.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:08:05]

Another guest on the podcast, Justin Gordon, phrased it wonderfully in episode 28, when he was trying to explain what HE thought was the key ingredient that he saw in BOTH successful founders AND successful athletes…

EPISODE 26 - Justin Gordon (13:05)
    "Obsession, with all of these people. It's just an obsession and it manifests itself in different ways because people are inherently different."

Yong-Soo Chung [00:08:27]

Obsession. You need to be obsessed with your goals if you want to succeed. How obsessed? Well, let's just say, as obsessed as the co-founder and CEO of Beehiiv, Tyler Denk. Remember his amazing work ethic from episode 42?

EPISODE 42 - Tyler Denk (SEGMENT 4, advice for entrepreneurs)
    "I wake up at 530. I work till 10-11. It's no joke, and I love it. And maybe, uh, I'm a psychopath, and I just have a very strong vision of where I want this business to go, and there's nothing I want to get in the way of that happening."

Yong-Soo Chung [00:08:58]

You will find this being described in many different ways - single-minded focus, obsession, eyes on the prize, and continuous improvement, just to name a few.

But the crux of it all remains the same. You need to work hard and develop a routine of constant improvement in your pursuit of greatness. And the best way to constantly improve is to adopt the principle of deliberate practice.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:10:55]

The next lesson to keep in mind is not actually a lesson, in my opinion, but more of a fundamental rule of life. It is something that you must either have or cultivate within yourself if you wish to climb the ladder of success.

Consistency.

And that's the third lesson for this episode:

LESSON NUMBER THREE: Consistency is key to success in the short-term AND long-term success, both.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:11:19]

One of my favorite lessons in life is the concept of the "20-mile march" by Jim Collins, outlined in the book "Great by Choice" and it goes something like this:

Imagine two people embarking on a three-thousand mile walk from San Diego to Maine. One of them consistently walks 20 miles every single day. The other may or may not choose to walk on a particular day depending on the weather and other disruptions. Which one of them do you think is more likely to complete the three-thousand mile journey and reach Maine?

The 20-mile march is simply an allegorical tale of working consistently towards your goal and logging in those valuable twenty miles every single day.

For this podcast, my twenty miles is the weekly episode that I strive hard to ensure is in the feed every single week.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:12:07]

And every successful creator and founder we have had on the show has had their own twenty miles. For instance, Khe Hy had sent out FOUR HUNDRED editions of RadReads by the time he appeared on episode 37 of this podcast...

EPISODE 37 - Khe Hy (09:00)
    "And I'm like, I guess I'll do this next week, and then next week, and then next week, and then next week, and then that was 388 weeks ago. So that newsletter has spanned two kids, the birth of two kids, uh, cross country move, leaving BlackRock, two trips, uh, like, two trips around the world."

Yong-Soo Chung [00:12:39]

while Clint Murphy shared how writing a Twitter thread every single day for SEVENTY-FIVE days straight had helped him in many ways!

EPISODE 36 - Clint Murphy (13:21)
    "If you want to be a good writer, you write every single day. If you want to be a good runner, you run every single day. So what I said I was going to do was I was going to write a thread every day for a period of time. It ended up being about 75 days in a row. And so when you write a thread every day, you become a good thread writer. You improve your hooks, you improve your presentation, you get more eyeballs."

Yong-Soo Chung [00:13:17]

Consistency is the name of the game. Consistency is something that you can control. Consistency builds healthy habits, which over time, will help you improve your content, especially if you happen to combine it with deliberate practice!

But, consistency alone won’t cut it. You need to build your circles of support, your tribe of people.

And that’s where our next lesson comes in.

LESSON NUMBER FOUR: Build solid relationships with your fans, your peers, AND your role models.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:13:47]

We've already spoken about the importance of building a community, a tribe of people in your journey as an entrepreneur.

Let's dig a little deeper into this.

There are three kinds of people you need to collect in your tribe - your fans, your peers, and your role models. Each of these three circles of people plays an important role in your entrepreneurial journey.

Fans are people who follow you because they enjoy the journey you have started. Because they like whatever it is that you are looking to build - a product, a newsletter, a podcast, a YouTube channel. Fans provide you with encouragement and motivation to keep going.

And the simplest way to collect fans in your journey is to build in public, that is, to share regular updates at every step along the way.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:14:29]

Several previous guests on this podcast have endorsed building in public. For instance, the co-founder and CEO of Beehiiv, Tyler Denk mentioned very specific reasons why he chooses to document ALL of Beehiiv's significant milestones in public.

EPISODE 42 - Tyler Denk (After lesson 4)
    "And that does buy you one, like, people who want to be a part of the journey, and two people who trust us that we aren't just some behemoth company that doesn't care about our users, but we're in the weeds, in the trenches, talking to all of our users and really taking their feedback to heart."

Yong-Soo Chung [00:15:00]

A very similar sentiment was also echoed by Kevon Cheung, when he was explaining his PIERS framework to me back in episode 19.

EPISODE 19 - Kevon Cheung (21:26)
    "So building in public really is attractive to me because now I'm able to get so many early signals from the community. They are telling me what they need, and then I can just work with them to shape the product. And guess what? Because they're part of the development process, they're there to buy and they're there to spread the word when the product is ready."

Yong-Soo Chung [00:15:30]

Now, even though building in public is primarily aimed at the FANS, I would also like to point out here that it is also appreciated by your PEERS.

Peers are people who are on the same level as you. These may be other founders, entrepreneurs, or creators who are on the same path as you. They might even occupy the same spaces as you and share the same audiences as you. You might even share the same set of FANS!

Peers are important in your entrepreneurial journey because they provide you with support and accountability. They provide you with the logistics necessary for boosting your output. They assist in distribution since exchanging audiences always offers a mutual benefit. And, most importantly in my opinion, your peers help you maintain accountability.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:16:15]

If you don't have any peers or know of any peers, then now would be a great time to start finding them. It's quite easy, in fact. If you remember, Clint Murphy referred to these as your 'ride-or-die partners' back in episode 36 and even outlined a clear process for finding them...

EPISODE 36 - Clint Murphy (32:23)
    "You're going to want to start finding large accounts that you respect in the area that you want to be known for and you're going to comment on their stuff. You're going to like it. You're going to quote tweet it. You're going to comment on it because people will see your comments, set them on notifications so that you're the first to comment, because then you get traffic, then you get eyeballs on you."
    "Then you're going to use a certain number of those conversations to create your own circles, your own groups, your ride or die partners. Find those ride or die partners, build relationships, create your core group, and then you're going to have different cohorts over time, but have your core group."

Yong-Soo Chung [00:17:08]

Your ride-or-die partners will form an important part of your community, or your tribe, since they will be the ones who will boost your content and your reach to wider audiences. So, make sure you have a core group of people who could be considered your ride-or-die partners.

And then, the third kind of people you need to have in your tribe are, of course, role models. These are people who are already accomplished and established in your domains. Since they are several steps ahead of you in your journey, you stand to benefit by simply following in their footsteps. And if they happen to give you an occasional boost that doesn't hurt either!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:17:43]

Chenell Basilio had a great example of this during our conversation in episode 38, where she explained how Nathan Bough was able to leverage his role-model Sahil Bloom as a mentor in his journey to grow as a creator on Twitter.

EPISODE 38 - Chenell Basilio (22:22)
    "So, um, if you look back on, like, Nathan Bough's journey, you could see that he was trying to chat with Sahil, uh, Bloom in the beginning. Um, and then I think he actually took his Twitter growth course on Maven. And so after that started, you can see them interacting afterwards together. And it's sahil bloom. If he retweets your thing, that's pretty cool. People are going to notice you. You're going to start growing. Um, and so you can kind of that was also the time when Nathan started really doing well with Twitter threads because I think he was able to take feedback from someone who's been doing it for longer and just jump in and implement that himself."

Yong-Soo Chung [00:18:33]

You can integrate your role-models into your community by regularly engaging with them, making honest attempts to get noticed by them, and adding value to their lives - often, for free. And, if you are wondering, where can you find them? Well, Colin Chung has the answer for you!

EPISODE 39 - Colin Chung (14:35)
    "...in every community, there are always many niches or cliques or communities in every industry and you can figure out what that niche community is and you can get inside and you start navigating it and, uh, influencing it and figuring out who are the movers and shakers, who are the people or intermediaries in that community. Who's the alpha dog in that community. And you start connecting with the right people and you impress them. You start becoming part of that community, and you just get better clients because you're part of that community."

Yong-Soo Chung [00:19:24]

And those are the three kinds of people you need to have in your corner if you want to become successful as a founder, entrepreneur, or creator - fans, peers, and role-models.

The next lesson I want to share is a highly practical one, maybe even technical and it involves keeping a close eye on your distribution strategies. Here it is:

LESSON NUMBER FIVE: Your distribution strategy is just as important as your product.

As a founder and entrepreneur, merely building an amazing product isn't enough - you also need to think carefully about your distribution strategy. Even if you build the best product in the world, if no one knows about it, you will never succeed.

As a creator, there are two types of distribution: width and depth.

Let's look at both of these, one-by-one.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:20:09]

In episode 24, Arvid Kahl spoke about how he would record once and re-use the same content across various distribution channels...

EPISODE 24 - Arvid Kahl (18:33)
    "Arvid Kahl: I guess the deciding moment was when somebody told me, "I'm dyslexic. I love what you're saying, but I have a hard time reading it."
    Yong-Soo Chung: Arvid simply took the content of the newsletter, and recorded in audio.
    Arvid Kahl:So that's where the podcast started. The podcast was really just me narrating the article that I wrote from my blog and my newsletter at the same time.
    Yong-Soo Chung:And with a format like this...
    Arvid Kahl: YouTube was just the next iteration. I just turned on the camera while I was narrating the thing."

Arvid took a single piece of content and repurposed it for different distribution channels because he knew that the audiences on one channel were unlikely to overlap with the audience on a different channel. Thus, by repurposing his content onto other platforms through his efficient PROCESS, he was increasing the WIDTH of his audience reach.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:21:02]

On the other hand, the distribution strategy that Chenell Basilio outlined in episode 38 involved her revamping her Twitter profile and interacting with other creators within Twitter.

EPISODE 38 - Chenell Basilio (10:08)
    "...it depends on who I'm reverse engineering. And some people find it really interesting and will share it with their own audience, which is kind of cool. So it's like I'm hitting different people every week, but that's hard to manufacture."

By drilling DEEP into a specific channel, Chenell was able to develop solid PARTNERSHIPS with other creators in her domain. That, in turn, resulted in Chenell getting in front of these large creators’ audiences, which got her more subscribers, which got her better sponsorships for her newsletter, Growth In Reverse!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:21:49]

If you’re feeling overwhelmed by now, don’t worry. Here’s what I recommend. First, create momentum within one platform, by partnering up with other creators on that particular platform before trying to build on another platform. This gets your flywheel going and it’ll be easier to snowball your audience onto the other platforms later.

But you should still think about how you want to distribute your content through both depth and width. This way, when you’re ready to expand onto other platforms, you’ll be ready to boost your distribution even further.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:23:56]

And with that, it is now time for…

LESSON NUMBER SIX: The quickest way to build a following is to create GREAT content AND have a SPIKY point of view.

These days, thanks to the rapid advancement in AI, the quantity of content being created has definitely gone up. Almost every creator has upped their content game significantly, which means that it’s now more important than ever to differentiate yourself from the sea of content out there.

And this is where having a 'spiky' point of view matters.

According to Wes Kao - which is where I first heard about this concept - "A spiky point of view is a perspective others can disagree with. It's a belief you feel strongly about and are willing to advocate for. It's your thesis about topics in your realm of expertise."

Yong-Soo Chung [00:24:42]

Take the example of the EAR$ framework by Jeremy Enns. Exposure, Attraction, Retention, and Sales - pretty standard way of guiding the audience through your sales funnel, when you think about it. First, you are exposed to your audience, they are attracted to your product, then they stay with you, and finally, you monetize.

Almost everyone intuitively understands this funnel BUT, by bringing it together and giving it a 'spiky' name, namely "the EAR$ framework", Jeremy now has a proprietary framework that he can call his own. If you’ve listened to previous episodes of this podcast, you know that I’ve referred back to Jeremy’s EAR$ framework several times. And that’s what having your own framework can do for you. Others can and will refer to it and credit your work.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:25:23]

Having a spiky point of view is crucial to building a strong brand. This was reaffirmed by Sandy Chung in episode 15, in which she outlined her 3-step framework for building a strong brand.

EPISODE 15 - Sandy Chung - (5:56)
    "Sandy: So step number one is identify your values. So like in the party example, think about what sets you apart. I think that being sure of who you are will attract the right customers. And step two is to be consistent with these values. The consistency is key because, like I said before, a brand is a feeling that your consumers get, and less so an intellectual understanding.
   
    Sandy: And so it's a constant motion to continue to evoke those feelings. And step three is to be open to changing your brand values. And this can be based on internal or external factors. And I think that it's important to continue to reassess your brand and, you know, change is a good thing."

Yong-Soo Chung [00:26:20]

Wait a minute, did she actually say "Be open to changing brand values?" Because conventional wisdom says that you should STICK to your brand values and here she is, saying it is okay to CHANGE your brand values.

Guess what? That counts as a spiky point of view too! By saying something counterintuitive, she was inviting you into a conversation, which would have introduced you to her brand and possibly converted you into a customer. Smart, isn't it?

Simply put, a spiky point of view is an ice-breaker, a conversation-starter. It represents a slice of your belief system. Sometimes, it is a framework, sometimes it is a mental model. It can be a bit counter-intuitive or even highly controversial.

Regardless of how you look at it, a spiky point of view is intended for one purpose and one purpose only - to help you stand out and become memorable.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:27:08]

The FINAL lesson I want to share with you today has to do with - what I consider - the MOST important factor in a business: LUCK.

LUCKY NUMBER SEVEN: Get lucky.

Wait, wait, wait... How can you GET lucky? Isn't the entire point of luck that you CAN'T control it?

Yeah, true. You can't control luck. I mean if you could, there would be no failed products. Or failed exams. Or failed anything, really. everyone would create their own luck and... NOT fail.

But, I strongly believe that you can create some luck. Well, create the conditions for getting lucky anyways.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:27:46]

I did an entire episode on this back in December of 2022 titled "The Science of Luck: How to Create Your Own Luck". In that episode, I outlined the FOUR types of luck - blind, serendipitous, expertise, and idiosyncratic.

Most discussions around luck are either about blind luck. Like, winning the lottery. Or getting an exam with the ONLY three questions you prepared for. THIS is the kind of luck that you cannot control and I totally agree.

BUT the other three kinds of luck - serendipitous, expertise, and idiosyncratic luck - I believe you CAN control. And I did an entire episode of this podcast about how you can do it... And not just CONTROL, I outlined specific things you can do to CREATE your own luck... If you haven't heard it yet, I suggest you line up the episode in your podcast player next. Trust me, you won't be disappointed. I’ll leave a link in the show notes.

I say this with confidence because I have SEEN it happen. And I have seen it happen with guests who appeared on this VERY podcast.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:28:44]

Remember when we deconstructed the success of Jackson Fall's incredibly viral tweet announcing the birth of HustleGPT?

EPISODE 32 - Jackson Fall (22:40)
    "The secret sauce for making a tweet go viral is to use a novel technology in a unique manner to make money."

Or Clint Murphy explaining in episode 36 how he, quote-unquote, 'got lucky' with one of his viral threads on twitter...

EPISODE 36 - Clint Murphy (17:27)
    "And that thing ended up having close to 30 million views, and we added 25,000 followers in a three day period or a four day period. So that was stratospheric. It was, you know, at the time, I think we're around 50 to 60, and we went 75 to 80 overnight."

Once you finish listening to episode 10, you will realize that Jackson's luck was serendipitous. And Clint's luck was simply a result of him exercising his expertise.

Yeah.

When I said you can CREATE your own luck, I wasn't just offering a spiky point of view. Or being facetious. I was being completely, one hundred percent honest about it.

So, go ahead and create your own luck! I wish you... lots of luck!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:29:59]

Before we wrap up this episode, let's quickly recap and summarize the seven lessons I shared over the course of this episode.

LESSON NUMBER ONE: Have a clear vision for where you want to be in the long term.

Visionary founders are visionary because they set themselves a target and plan an entire life-trajectory to achieve it.

LESSON NUMBER TWO: Embrace the art of deliberate practice and strive to improve constantly.

The power of compounding can yield tremendous results - working hard to improve by just 1% everyday can make you 37 TIMES better in one year.

LESSON NUMBER THREE: Consistency is key to success in the short term AND long-term success, both.

Remember, ONE percent every single day...

LESSON NUMBER FOUR: Build solid relationships with your fans, your peers, AND your role models.

Fans provide ENCOURAGEMENT, peers provide ACCOUNTABILITY, and role-models provide OPPORTUNITIES.

LESSON NUMBER FIVE: Your distribution strategy is just as important as your product.

To build a large audience for your product or content, you need to distribute both WIDE and DEEP. Start distributing deep within one platform by building partnerships with other creators to build momentum. Then, you can achieve WIDE distribution by building processes to repurpose your content onto other platforms.

LESSON NUMBER SIX: The quickest way to build a following is to create GREAT content AND have a SPIKY point of view.

Make your content stand out by adopting a SPIKY point of view. It’ll make you memorable and others will start referring back to your proprietary framework or mental model earning you more credibility and authority.

LUCKY NUMBER SEVEN: Get lucky.

Sure, you cannot control luck. But there are several ways to position yourself to increase your probability of getting lucky to the point where luck will eventually find you.

That's it.

These are the seven lessons I have learned in my entrepreneurial journey so far. My intention behind outlining them here today is simply so you can learn them earlier - through my own experiences or of people who have previously appeared on this podcast.

You can disagree with some or all of them at your own peril because, sooner or later, you WILL learn these exact same lessons - you can quote me on that!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:32:23]

Alright, that wraps up today's show! 

In the next episode of First Class Founders we’re talking to Daren Smith. Daren is the ultimate creator, a film producer. I speak to Daren about how being a film producer is similar to being a founder. There are more similarities than you think and Daren opened up to tell us some crazy stories. Be sure to tune in next week!

And, one last thing before I go... If you're a new listener and you enjoyed this episode, you can follow the show by going to FirstClassFounders.com and clicking on the link that matches your preferred podcast player - like Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, you can also add YOUR voice to the show by leaving a message on firstclassfounders.com - for example, what did you think of this episode specifically?

And, when you get a chance, could you also head over to FirstClassFounders.com/review and leave the podcast a five-star review? It really helps boost credibility for the show which means more incredible guests for you! And why wouldn’t you want that? I’ll leave a link in the show notes to leave us a 5-star review. Thank you so much!

If you wanna connect with me, you can hit me up on Twitter @YongSooChung. I’m pretty active there and would love to connect with you. You can find links to all my social accounts in the show notes.

I'll see you on the next episode of First Class Founders.