30 Lessons I Learned Growing My Podcast to 36,000 Downloads During My First Year

Yong-Soo Chung [00:00:00]

It's been a little over a year since I released the first episode of First Class Founders.

And, during this time, I tried nearly every trick and technique out there to grow my podcast.

I have spent more than TWENTY-SEVEN THOUSAND dollars on this podcast, and produced 56 episodes. These 56 episodes have been downloaded more than THIRTY-SIX THOUSAND times at the time of this recording.

So, I’ve learned a thing or two about growing a podcast.

And today, I plan to share 30 lessons I learned.

Yup, I wrote down 30 lessons for you.

And a few of them might even surprise you.

You ready? Let's get started!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:00:45]

The next generation of successful founders in this digital age of entrepreneurship will leverage their audience to launch, build, and scale their brands. First Class Founders explores this golden intersection of audience-building & company-building with proven strategies to grow both your audience, which is your distribution, and your brand, which is your product.

Because those who can master both will create a category of one.

Hi, my name is Yong-Soo Chung and I'm a serial entrepreneur who bootstrapped 3 successful businesses from $0 to $20 million over 8 years.

On this podcast, you'll learn timeless lessons from world-class content creators, startup founders, and CEOs. You'll also hear tactical tips & strategies from ME, Yong-Soo Chung!

Are you ready? Then, let’s begin!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:01:38]

Today's episode of First Class Founders is a SOLO flight.

So I am going to share with you everything I learned over ONE whole year of growing my podcast from zero downloads to THIRTY-SIX THOUSAND and counting...

Just like my newsletter, my podcast went from having little to no listeners for the first few weeks to having a wonderful community of dedicated listeners - like YOU - who keep pushing me to do better with each episode!

And, in the process, I tried various growth hacks - some legit, some cheeky, some bizarre, and some incredibly powerful. For example, I spent a TRUCKLOAD of money on PRODUCTION costs - something that most podcast growth experts will tell you isn't, quote-unquote, "necessary" for beginners.

Yeah, well, they are WRONG.

I spent more than twenty-thousand dollars to produce these fifty-six episodes. And, the results are plain for everyone to see.

The First Class Founders podcast is growing steadily and receiving rave reviews from guests, listeners, and other podcasters.

But wait, I am getting ahead of myself here.

Professional production, I found, was just ONE of the FIVE KEYS to grow your podcast. The other four? They are Preparation, Presentation, Packaging, and Perseverance.

Think of them as the 5 Pillars of Podcasting.

And I'm going to share with you THIRTY lessons divided over these 5 pillars - which I learned during my first year of podcasting.

Oh, and by the end of this episode, see if you can spot a major flaw in my thought-process?

Think about it this way. I spent twenty-seven thousand dollars to teach myself the art of podcasting. And, in the next thirty minutes, I am giving away ALL the lessons I learned - yes, ALL twenty-seven thousand dollars worth of it - to YOU absolutely FREE!

The catch? I'll need about thirty minutes of your undivided attention.

Ready? Alright then!

Jet-setters, buckle up your seatbelts, put your phone on Airplane mode, and get ready for take-off!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:04:05]

Before we begin, a quick reminder that we teamed up with HyperPods to bring to you a quick 3-min hyper-visual summary of this episode on the lessons I learned over the past year while growing my podcast to help you consume faster, understand better, and retain more key ideas and insights.

You can grab the hyper-visual summary for this week’s episode absolutely free at firstclassfounders.com/hypervisuals.

Let's dive right in.

By now, you might have spotted the fact that these five pillars also correspond to the five stages in the life-cycle of a podcast episode. Or they SHOULD correspond to it, ideally.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:04:44]

A podcast episode should, first of all, be PREPPED.

PILLAR NUMBER 1: PREPARATION

Most podcasters believe that podcasting is simple - you just switch on your mic and record your thoughts.

Nope. Bad idea.

First things, first. Get yourself a good quality microphone.

Notice I said good quality, not expensive. There are a TON of budget microphones that are less than $100, which can be used to record AMAZING audio. I use an AudioTechnica AT2020 USB mic and you will often get it for an amazing deal during BlackFriday and CyberMonday sales.

A good microphone has the same impact on sound as a good front-camera has on your selfie.

And, while you are at it, also make sure you record in a sound-isolated space.

No, that doesn't mean you should go into a studio. Or spend lots of money to sound-proof your room. I record from my wife's walk-in closet. All her hanging clothes make for excellent sound dampeners! Or build yourself a pillow fort and record inside it - that works great too but it can get pretty hot and humid inside.

Whatever you do, please don't record in an empty room! Room reverb is not only difficult to remove but it also makes for difficult listening.

Next, plan out your calendar for at least twenty episodes before you even record for your first one. Then keep adding at least one new episode idea to the future schedule every week. My podcast calendar is already full till the middle of next year.

Not all of your episodes need to be monologues - some of them can be conversations or interviews. It depends on the purpose of your podcast.

Are you trying to build authority for yourself? Then monologues, like this episode, will help you get there. Monologues are where you compile your knowledge about a particular topic and share it with your audience. Monologues underline your expertise and cement your personal brand.

Interviews, on the other hand, require you to share some of the spotlight with another person - usually someone with greater expertise and/or clout. Interviews are a great way to reach audiences other than your own. Think of it as expanding your reach at the expense of undercutting your authority a little bit.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:06:51]

On this podcast, I alternate between monologues and interviews - SOLO flight and flights with COPILOTS - which, I have found, gets me the best of both worlds!

But, here's the million-dollar question: Which guests should you bring on the show?

Because, once your podcast starts attracting regular listeners, you will literally have strangers DM-ing you to ask if they can be guests on your podcast. They haven't heard the show, haven't heard of you, but they still want to be on your podcast.

This is where you need to set boundaries for yourself and the show.

Be absolutely clear about what your podcast is about and what kind of a guest profile you want for your podcast.

The First Class Founders podcast is about entrepreneurs, founders, and creators. Do you think it makes sense for me to invite Neil DeGrasse Tyson to talk about the James Webb Space Telescope on this podcast?

Okay, bad example, I would absolutely love to have Neil DeGrasse Tyson on this podcast. Except I wouldn't talk to him about the telescope - I would talk to him about his content strategy on X and how he approaches the art of science popularization as a creator.

Man, what a boost to my downloads that would be!

BUT, that's not gonna happen sadly. Imagine me going to NDT and telling him, I have a podcast that gets eight hundred downloads every week. He'll laugh me out of the room before I even tell him how much I admire his content creation strategies.

And that's the other thing about guests. Just like how random strangers will approach you to be guests on your podcast, you will also frequently get rejected by your heroes.

And that's okay.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:08:56]

The important part is to figure out what each guest has to offer and how that will benefit the audience you are looking to serve. As long as you have a clear answer to those two questions, you can be assured that you are on the right track.

And there's a simple trick to this: Before you do anything else, write down the TITLE and STRUCTURE of your episode.

This will give you a clear direction for your episode and ensure that ALL your prep stays true to the intent of the podcast and fulfills your promise to the listener every single time.

Did you catch all the lessons for the PREP stage? Here, let me quickly recap them for you: high-quality audio makes a huge difference. Invest in a decent microphone, solo episodes are underrated, they build your authority and personal brand, strangers who have never listened to your show will try to convince you they would be the best guest, you'll get rejected by your heroes when you ask them to come on the show. That's OK and come up with the title and structure of your episode before you hit record.

And, to extend that last thought a little further, script your episodes, please? I hate it when people ramble into a microphone assuming you will be able to 'fix it in post' because that is an INCREDIBLY bad idea.

Remember the saying, you can't polish a turd? Yeah, that applies to podcasting too.

I script all my episodes - even this one.

Writing my episodes helps me express my thoughts in a clear and concise manner. The trick here is to write your scripts as if you were speaking them. That means you script even the occasional 'umms' and 'ahhs' and pauses and such. Basically, write the script as if you were writing a screenplay.

Because you will essentially be using the script to 'perform' it on the mic when you record it!

...which, incidentally, brings us to the second pillar, namely - PRESENTATION.

Simply put, presentation is the act of taking everything you have prepped beforehand and converting it into recorded audio.

Except, as you may have figured out, there's a LOT more to it than just recording a monologue or an interview. I have discovered several pitfalls in the process that can trip you up badly if you aren't paying attention.

I'll tell you about all of them in a bit but first, I wanna say thanks to my sponsor CastMagic!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:10:37]

Jetsetters, as you may know, I hand-pick all my sponsors from companies I truly believe in.

That's why when Ramon from Castmagic wanted to sponsor First Class Founders, it was a no-brainer.

This isn't just any tool. This is the tool that gives me back 20+ precious hours every single week.

Say goodbye to painstaking edits and tedious content crafting. Castmagic has revolutionized my content creation workflow.

With Castmagic, you'll harness the power to amplify the value of any audio file tenfold. It's not just about tools—it's about shaping the future of content creation.

I can’t recommend it enough.

Dive into the Castmagic experience now by using code FOUNDERS30 to grab 30% off the first 3 months of your subscription.

Alright, let's get back to my list of lessons learned in my first year of podcasting.

Before we took this short detour, I introduced you to the SECOND pillar  - PRESENTATION. I mentioned that there are several pitfalls that can trip you up at this stage...

Let's take a look at what they are, shall we?

Yong-Soo Chung [00:12:06]

PILLAR NUMBER 2: PRESENTATION

Presentation is simply taking your preparation and recording it.

That said, here's something podcasters don't realize in the beginning.

The mic cuts your energy by half.

What that means is, if you want to sound 'natural' when recording, you actually need to speak TWICE as animatedly as you do in real life. That's why I said you will be 'performing' it.

When I go back to my earliest episodes, I cringe because I sound so unnatural, robotic, and unenergetic. I. Sounded. Like. This. So boring, right?

And yes, you will also need to quote-unquote 'perform' when you interview a guest for your podcast. I'm still learning this art, which is also why my interview episodes are unlike any other interview episodes you have heard.

I said 'also' because I am not a fan of the traditional interview format. I think it is overdone and prone to unnecessary rambling and digressions, which I consider a huge waste of the listener's time.

That's why I re-script and record a fresh narration for every interview.

One, it helps me retain only the juiciest bits of the interview. Two, it helps me mask the fact that I am still developing my skills as an interviewer.

And three, it makes this podcast stand apart from the rest of the pack.

I mean, almost every review I have received for this podcast mentions how all my interview episodes always get straight to the point. All I am saying is that was a deliberate choice and the fact that I am getting POSITIVE reviews for it shows that it was the RIGHT choice.

And, by the way, speaking of reviews, don't expect to get ANY reviews or ratings for your podcast, no matter how many times you ask people to do it.

Unless it is a NEGATIVE review. Because people will stop everything they are doing to share negative experiences. It's just how the internet works - nothing you or I can do about it.

But, don't worry! You can totally escape getting hit by negative reviews!

Simply avoid these three problems - too many ads, content that is too political, or too much rambling. Because, in my experience, every NEGATIVE review I have read always seems to point the finger at one of these three things.

How do you avoid them? Simple, you write your script ahead of time!

Yong-Soo Chung [00:14:23]

Writing your script ahead of time will help you avoid ALL three of these pitfalls EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. So, please, PLEASE write your scripts ahead of time!

So, anyway, those are my 5 lessons for the PRESENTATION stage: script your shows but don't make it sound scripted, be considerate of your audience's time. Cut out the unnecessary fluff, traditional guest interview shows are overdone. Avoid them if you can, listeners will leave negative reviews for 3 reasons: too many ads, too political, and too much rambling and nobody will leave a rating or a review even though you'll ask on every single episode.

Feel free to prove me wrong by heading over to firstclassfounders.com/review and leaving a review for this podcast!

Okay, jokes aside, you may have noticed that I glossed over an important step when I spoke about re-scripting and recording a fresh narration...

Isn't that incredibly time-consuming?

You are absolutely right. It is. It takes a minimum of twenty hours over a period of seven days to put together each interview episode. The scripting takes six to eight hours. The editing takes about four to six hours. And the sound design takes another six to eight hours.

Not to mention the time required to review and revise at each stage of this process. Heck, believe it or not, even a week isn't enough sometimes!

Then, how do you manage it?

Simple. I have hired a producer who does all of it!

...which brings us to the THIRD pillar:

Yong-Soo Chung [00:15:53]

PILLAR NUMBER 3: PACKAGING

Here's a fact that you might not realize immediately: Podcast editing looks simple but it is not. And if you have never done it before it can be... daunting, to say the least.

Yes, there are several new applications that can help you edit audio as if you were editing text. Yes, they work primarily with the content of the audio and do a decent job, no doubt.

But, I would still recommend hiring a producer to edit your show.

A producer who has worked with audio is able to understand the overall flow of the conversation much better than any AI out there and can make better calls in terms of what to keep and what to delete from your audio. Plus, a good producer can pretty much transform your audio to the point where it just flows beautifully and sounds almost... lyrical.

Yeah, as you may have noticed, I have found myself a pretty awesome producer. DM me if you want an intro - I'll gladly connect you to him!

I don't have to tell you how important it is to have good audio. I mean, that's one of the main reasons why you enjoy listening to THIS podcast, right? And, can I tell you a secret? You made that call - to continue listening to this episode, that is - in the first 30 seconds of this episode.

Yup, my producer and I spend a LOT of time crafting the perfect opening to each episode. He then further works on making it sound truly awesome, which ensures that all my listeners are HOOKED in those 30 seconds. Because, we have consistently found that listeners who stay past the 30 second mark, tend to stick with a huge chunk of the episode.

That's why I invested nearly twenty-two thousand dollars into production for my podcast. That comes to an average of about four hundred dollars per episode but, believe me, the return on that investment is definitely worth it!

How so?

Simple, better episodes mean more listeners. More listeners means higher-quality sponsors and guests. Which attracts even more listeners. The flywheel practically feeds itself!

And it all starts with investing into the production and packaging for your show.

So, to sum up, here are the 4 lessons I learned about PACKAGING your podcast:
- A higher quality show attracts higher quality sponsors & guests.
- Podcast editing looks simple, but it's not. (Just hire a producer).
- Your listeners will judge your entire episode within the first 30 seconds. Hook them in.
- Once your podcast has a large enough audience, advertisers will pay a premium to sponsor it.

Okay, at this point, you have prepped a great show, presented it wonderfully, and compiled it into a neat little package - with or without the help of a producer.

What next?

Yes, the next step is to publish it for the audiences to consume BUT don't think for a moment that your job is DONE and you can relax. This is actually the BEST part of the process, if you ask me!

Because this is when you get to TELL people about the awesome job you just did with the episode you just finished producing!

This is where you PROMOTE your podcast!

Or, in simple words, this is where you tweet about it, sorry, post about it on X, make reels or shorts for Instagram and YouTube, share it with your networks on LinkedIn or Facebook or Mastodon or whatever platform your audience hangs out on...

But, beware! This stage is FILLED with tripping hazards! One wrong step and you will probably end up with absolute crickets in your podcast feed...

Luckily, I’ve tried a TON of growth hacks and tips and tricks and techniques over the past fifty-plus weeks. And I NOW have a pretty solid idea of what works and what doesn't, when it comes to podcast promotion.

And I'll tell you all about it in extensive detail but first, while I have your undivided attention, I wanna introduce you to our new sponsor, AppSumo.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:19:48]

It's no secret - for B2B companies, direct sales is one of the most effective ways of getting new clients. It's one of the 5 growth levers that I talk about on my podcast. GrowthJet, my Climate-Neutral Certified 3PL company, uses direct sales as one of our growth channels. But, I have a confession to make. I've been managing this process through spreadsheets, which honestly, is a horrible solution.

So, when the team over at Appsumo told me about this new tool called SendNow, I had to try it out. And guess what? It. Is. Amazing. My team is using it now to set up different campaigns, verify emails, check opens and replies, and even use some of their sequence templates. It's made my entire team's life so much easier. It's like a CRM designed specifically for direct sales. Imagine putting your outbound email campaigns on auto-pilot. Yeah, that's what it feels like. And my friend Noah Kagan, who by the way, will be coming on as a guest on this podcast soon, also runs Appsumo. He was kind enough to hook you all up with an amazing deal on SendNow as part of Appsumo's Black Friday campaign.

Do yourself a favor and check the link in the show notes for Appsumo and search for "Send Now." They also have a ton of other amazing software deals for Black Friday so don't miss out.

Again, I'll put the link in the show notes to make it easy as possible for you to take advantage of these amazing software deals. Go check it out!

Alright, let's get back to our episode on the lessons I learned over a year of growing my podcast from ZERO to thirty-six thousand downloads.

To quickly recap our journey so far, after prepping, presenting, and packaging the podcast, the next key area to focus is promoting the podcast…

Yong-Soo Chung [00:21:47]

In other words, it is time for...

PILLAR NUMBER 4: PROMOTION

Honestly, this particular topic is actually quite popular on the internet. A quick search for "podcast promotion" on Google yields 31 million results - ranging from articles and guides to paid services from individuals and agencies alike. You will find freelancers from Fiverr as well as well-renowned agencies both claiming they have perfected strategies that can 'assure growth for your podcast'.

Well, I've tried nearly every possible strategy that the internet has thrown at me and here's what I have found.

First things first, nothing - and I mean NOTHING - beats organic growth.

In the early days of my podcast, I tried advertising my podcast on a popular podcast platform. I racked up nearly ten thousand subscribers for my podcast in a pretty short time. My metrics went through the roof during the time I was paying to promote my podcast to the listeners on that platform.

But, as soon as I stopped advertising, my podcast metrics fell off a cliff. My growth returned back to nearly the same levels as it was before the campaign.

But, you know what helped me claw back my listeners and downloads?

Two things - upping my production quality and posting a detailed thread about every episode on X.

I cannot - repeat, CANNOT - stress the importance of promoting your podcast on whichever social platform your users frequently hang out. For this podcast, it happens to be Twitter, that is, X. For your podcast, it might be Instagram or YouTube. Whatever it is, make sure you make lots of noise about your podcast on that platform to attract new listeners to your podcast...

Speaking of attracting new listeners, another way to achieve the same is to make guest appearances on other podcasts. You can do these as a swap - you appear on someone's podcast and they appear on yours.

Something else that I highly recommend is spending time on designing suitable cover art for your podcast. You want to keep it simple with colors that will stand out. When I was working on the First Class Founders podcast cover art, I literally cropped the cover art and pasted it over a screenshot on my phone from both Spotify and Apple Podcasts just to see how it will look among a sea of other podcasts. Remember that your podcast cover art is going to be tiny on a mobile device so make sure you don’t have small text.

Along the same lines, design a kickass trailer for your podcast as well. It should be short enough for people to hit 'play' but also informative enough for them to hit 'follow'. Yes, this is a tricky balance to achieve but this is where having that producer will come in REALLY handy, believe me!

Finally, don't be afraid to tweak the podcast title from an SEO perspective. Try out different keywords and see which one yields good results in terms of ranking in search algorithms on various platforms. The title of your podcast plays a huge role in the SEO rankings on Spotify and Apple Podcasts so keep that in mind.

You might be thinking, "But these are just cosmetic changes to the podcast!" Sure, but I have consistently found that they help boost your podcast rankings and expose you to larger audiences.

Why am I focusing on the rankings rather than looking at other metrics? Well, because podcast analytics are pretty much non-existent at the moment. Maybe things will get better with time but, at the moment, things are pretty... bad.

Because podcasts are consumed through RSS, each distribution platform provides their own way of calculating various numbers related to consumption metrics. And there's no way to unify these numbers. Most hosts don't offer a single unified dashboard that shows all relevant metrics, for example, the way YouTube does.

So you kinda have to pull numbers from each distribution platform such as Apple, Spotify, Google, and also your podcast host to get an idea of how your episodes are performing.

What I do, sometimes, is check how my podcast ranks for certain keywords on various platforms. For example, my podcast being ranked second in Apple podcasts for the search term "creators" is a HUGE thing, in my opinion. Because the first-ranked podcast is ‘The Great Creators with Guy Raz. As a result of that, the First Class Founders podcast gains a ton of reputation-by-association in this scenario!

Now do you see why SEO is an underappreciated method for rapidly growing your podcast?

Yong-Soo Chung [00:26:11]

Finally, there is only ONE surefire way to climb up the rankings rapidly - it's a bit of a 'hack' but I have seen enough of it to know that it definitely works.

Increasing the frequency of your episodes.

That is, instead of doing a weekly episode, do an episode twice every week. Or daily, if you can manage it.

Simply because most podcast platforms rank podcasts with a large number of downloads higher in search results. And if you produce more episodes with a shorter frequency, basic math says that you will have a high number of downloads, which means better rankings.

Hey, don't hate the player, hate the game!

Anyway, here's a quick recap of the 9 lessons relevant to the PROMOTION stage for your podcast episodes:

- Organic growth is better than Paid growth
- You need at least one discovery platform (like X) to grow.
- Your podcast cover art matters a lot. Spend some time on it.
- Make your podcast trailers short & sweet.
- The name of your show should include the keywords you want to rank for.
- Podcast SEO is a real thing. Learn it.
- Being a guest on other people's shows is the most effective method to grow your show.
- Podcast analytics are nearly non-existent.
- More episodes per week = More downloads = Higher rankings

That brings us to the end of the fourth pillar for podcast growth - P for PROMOTION.

Next up is...

PILLAR NUMBER 5: PERSEVERANCE.

...and it is exactly what it sounds like.

But, if you want to know the detailed lessons I have learned around this pillar, you will need to sign up for a First Class Founders Premium membership.

In each episode, I craft an exclusive segment for members of the First Class Founders community and this week's segment is a compilation of SIX lessons I learned about why perseverance is SUCH an important quality to have for growing my podcast.

But, don't worry, I'm not gonna hold them to ransom. Here they are:
- Podcasting is the best networking tool in the world.
- You'll only survive if you fall in love with podcasting.
- Growth is non-linear. Stick with it long enough.
- Consistency matters a lot more than you think.
- Podcasting is the hardest medium to grow your audience.
- Podcasting is the best medium to build your audience's trust.
- Getting your listeners to take action is not impossible, but it's not easy.

However, if you want to know HOW and WHY I arrived at each of these conclusions, I strongly urge you to sign up to the First Class Founders membership over at firstclassfounders.com/join - I'll leave a link in the show notes.

Yong-Soo Chung [00:31:36]

The ONLY caveat is that you HAVE to love the art of podcasting and the medium of audio. I can definitely PROMISE you this - if you do this with a genuine passion for the format and for the medium, it will never feel like work.

But, if you are thinking of starting a podcast just so you can make some money, it WILL feel like a tedious job and you WILL burn out quicker than you can say, “Hey, I have a podcast!” 

So, my final bit of advice to you, before I wrap up this episode, is this:

"Don't start a podcast if your only goal is to make money. You'll burn out."

Podcasting, like most content-creation is a long-haul flight. There are no short-hop flights to success. Sure, you can take-off on a short runway by burning some extra fuel - that is, get a quick boost by doing paid promotions. But, I have found that the overall trend of growth will usually regress to the mean, at least in the early days.

The TWO biggest assets any podcaster can have are patience and perseverance.

And that's why this podcast has seen regular, well-produced episodes with top-quality content every week for the past whole year. That's why you can be absolutely assured that there will be an episode every week for the NEXT whole year. And the one after that. And after that...

Because I am looking to build a community of like-minded entrepreneurs, creators, and founders. And podcasting, I have found, is the best way to build the First Class Founders tribe...

Thank you for being a part of this tribe.

I'll see you next week, which by the way, features the amazing Michelle Thames. Michelle will give us run-down on how to win the game of social media. She works with large brands like Toyota, Subway, and Lenovo on their social media campaigns. Tune in next week!

And if you aren't subscribed to the First Class Founders newsletter yet - I recommend you do so at firstclassfounders.com/newsletter

It goes out to TEN THOUSAND people every week - another milestone I am proud of, by the way. I recently did an episode breaking down my newsletter growth from ZERO to TEN THOUSAND subscribers in just NINE months. Check out episode 55 of this podcast, titled, "How I Stacked 5 Growth Levers to Grow My Newsletter to 10,000 Subscribers.”
Look for the episode in your preferred podcast player and queue it up right now. I'll also leave a link for you in the show notes.

And that's a wrap for today's episode, I'll see you next time on First Class Founders!

I'll see you on the next episode of First Class Founders.